[Discuss] Greens in central Cambridge Litter and Barbecues

Tue Apr 20 13:38:44 BST 2010

Dear Allan

I really concur with you about the 'cooped up' feeling, having lived in a
flat in Thompsons Lane for years. And Like you I feel amazingly privileged
to have a house and a little garden. I also agree with you that it is
nothing short of scandalous that these boxes called flats are being built
with no way of residents sitting outside, which is what people long to do,
even if it¹s only a little shelf , it¹s OUT.

And I know we should pressure the Council to insist on higher standards. In
other areas, Westminster I do know, they Council are amazingly choosy a bout
what they allow developers to build whereas here the developer seems to be
King. I have just campaigned to try and get some better flats built in a
Conservation Area at the end of Hertford Street. No luck. The Council
planning committee have let a developer put 12 flats whre there were Three
AND build ove rthe garden. When I pointed out at a meeting that building
over gardens was not part of the City Plan, one LD Councillor said he knew
nothing about that.

I still though, on balance , don¹t think that this adds up to barbeques
being a good idea  it is just one freedom too far.

I should like to see more facilities like Deck Chairs to hire from the Rouse
pavilion, tennis raquets for hire from the other paviliion which they want
to pull down, lots of outdoor toys to borrow and play with. I just think
that on so many counts coooking in public when the spaces between people are
so small is the wrong thing and it can only get worse.

I do agree that these flippin PCSOs should be doing something in the
enforcement of litter and fires.

Yours

Anne

On 20/4/10 11:00, "Allan Brigham" <townnotgown at btinternet.com> wrote:

> Anne
> 
> I'm not planning on becoming the Cambridge advocate for barbeques!
> 
> And I agree that on most existing open spaces the argument should be, first,
> for warning notices at entrances top parks ( but design does matter - big
> black type saying 'Don't' is just one more visual eyesore) and second,
> enforcement. Can the PCSO's regulate this - they are about seven days a week
> and in the evenings ? If not, why not ?
> 
> However loads of families and young people enjoy barbeques. So maybe
> provision should be made for them somewhere - back to the City Council on
> that one. It would also be easier to tell people 'not here, but you can
> barbeque at...'.
> 
> My main point is that I am really lucky to have a house with a garden in
> Cambridge. And luck is all it is - we bought a house at a time when there
> was still a link between wages and prices. I suspect most Cambridge
> residents couldn't afford to buy their own house now on their present
> income. So many of those living in flats or bedsits don't have a choice - it
> is all that they can afford. And it is also a result of official policy to
> increase housing densities in urban areas. Hence increased pressure on all
> open spaces. And if barbequeing is what people under 40 enjoy doing maybe
> some provision should be made for them ? I remember being cooped up in a
> bedsit on hot summer days in cities and it was soul destroying.
> 
> So, public barbeque provision somewhere perhaps, where it doesn't disturb
> others due to noise or smell, but also pressure on developers to provide
> space for this on their developments. It should be part of the planning
> condition.
> 
> Allan
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: discuss-bounces at soscambridge.org.uk
> [mailto:discuss-bounces at soscambridge.org.uk] On Behalf Of Anne Garvey
> Sent: 20 April 2010 10:12
> To: SOS Cambridge discussion list
> Subject: Re: [Discuss] Greens in central Cambridge Litter and Barbecues
> 
> Dear Alan,
> 
> You are rather assuming that barbeques are a kind of human right. What about
> the majority of people who don't barbeque on Greens? I hate the smell of
> them and they spoil my enjoyment of being there which surely isn't right?
> 
> 
> Yours 
> 
> 
> ANNE
> 
> 
> On 19/4/10 22:59, "Allan Brigham" <townnotgown at btinternet.com> wrote:
> 
>> Peter
>> 
>> Thanks for your comments. I agree re suitability on most parks. It is also
> a
>> problem in Grantchester Meadows, as is the leaving behind of picnic debris
>> and occasional all night camping.
>> 
>> Maybe SOS and council should get together to designate some sites for
>> barbeques, though I'm not sure where. I think there is a barbeque site
> near
>> the Newnham paddling pool ? Where else would be suitable ? Perhaps the
> open
>> spaces in the planned urban extensions could be designed to include this
>> facility.
>> 
>> Allan
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: discuss-bounces at soscambridge.org.uk
>> [mailto:discuss-bounces at soscambridge.org.uk] On Behalf Of peter constable
>> Sent: 19 April 2010 19:01
>> To: SOS Cambridge discussion list
>> Subject: Re: [Discuss] Greens in central Cambridge Litter and Barbecues
>> 
>> Alan
>> 
>> This is an old subject and for years we have been trying to encourage
>> the Council to do something.
>> There has been great resistance to notices but now there seems to be a
>> change of heart. It is difficult to consider taking action  when
>> you have done nothing to bring the local ordinances to peoples
>> attention, There are ordinances against litter and fires.
>> I must say that in the past I have leaned towards a barbecue area. In
>> the States this is normal in State Parks but I have never seen one
>> in a central city park. I have now come to the conclusion that a
>> barbecue area on Parkers Piece, Midsummer Common, Christ's Pieces,
>> Jesus Green etc would be inappropriate. There is almost nowhere one
>> could be placed without it being obtrusive and polluting.
>> 
>> I very much appreciate your comments about people without gardens or
>> with very small gardens (I am one) but of course there are many
>> thousands
>> of these dwellings in Cambridge and many thousands of students to whom
>> this would apply. There are also many thousands of residents and
>> visitors
>> who regularly visit our green spaces and who would prefer that smoke
>> did not get in their eyes.
>> 
>> In the past it was not thought necessary to cook outdoors to enjoy a
>> picnic. The habit has grown only in recent years and has been
>> encouraged by
>> the supermarkets whose colorful bags are so liberally distributed
>> around our greens. With the greatest respect I do not think it will be
>> a great
>> sacrifice for  anyone if the greens become smoke free and litter free.
>> 
>> Yrs
>> Peter
>> Chair JGA
>> 
>> 
>> On 19 Apr 2010, at 15:41, Allan Brigham wrote:
>> 
>>> Thanks John. But I suspect many of those having barbeques on parks
>>> live in
>>> bedsits or flats, with at the most balconies if they are lucky.
>>> 
>>> Some of the money from building new flats and especially small
>>> bedsit type
>>> developments goes into improving local parks for these residents just
>>> because these new developments have no open space. There have been
>>> barbeques
>>> on Romsey Rec over the last couple of years, and it makes a horrible
>>> mess.
>>> But I'm fairly sure that many of these are people who have no where
>>> else to
>>> go outside. Which doesn't mean that burning the turf, leaving litter
>>> or late
>>> night noise is acceptable. But if policy is to encourage everyone to
>>> live in
>>> towns then there does need to be space for activities like barbeques.
>>> 
>>> Perhaps the issue is that of conflicting usages of open spaces, and
>>> how to
>>> manage/reconcile these ?
>>> 
>>> And maybe developers should be encouraged to create barbeque
>>> provision in
>>> their developments.
>>> 
>>> Allan
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: discuss-bounces at soscambridge.org.uk
>>> [mailto:discuss-bounces at soscambridge.org.uk] On Behalf Of John Lawton
>>> Sent: 19 April 2010 14:07
>>> To: SOS Cambridge discussion list
>>> Subject: Re: [Discuss] Greens in central Cambridge Litter and
>>> Barbecues
>>> 
>>> At 13:36 19/04/2010, you wrote:
>>>> Does SOS have a policy on barbeques ? Are the objections to
>>>> barbeques objections to burnt turf, or also to large gatherings,
>>>> especially at night in summer ?
>>> 
>>> I would say that we would oppose on the grounds that there is damage,
>>> but also usually a huge amount of litter.  Those who enjoy the fires
>>> seem to feel free to make a huge mess and show no responsibility to
>>> clear up afterwards.
>>> 
>>>> In America many open spaces come with barbeque provision. Do we need
>>>> the same here ?
>>> 
>>> Perhaps in the right setting, but I think not on grazing land, and
>>> not if they harm the nature of the green space.
>>> 
>>>> Maybe we need to think about parks differently as more and more
>>>> people are encouraged to live in high density developments with
>>>> little private open space, so no room for barbeques at home. If the
>>>> numbers  using parks increase then noise at all times of day from
>>>> parks becomes a bigger issue, so maybe existing parks need
>>>> redesigning to keep crowds away from houses ?  Maybe we need more
>>>> open spaces ?
>>> 
>>> Agreed about more green space provision,  but surely everyone has
>>> room for a BBQ, if not a bonfire?
>>> 
>>> John
>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
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