[Discuss] Greens in central Cambridge Litter and Barbecues

Anne Garvey annemgarvey at ntlworld.com
Wed Apr 21 13:50:09 BST 2010


Reading this back, I didn¹t mean Œyour¹ in any personal sense. Œ One¹s¹
always sounds rather like Princess Anne.


On 21/4/10 13:34, "Anne Garvey" <annemgarvey at ntlworld.com> wrote:

> I don¹t think it is anti-fun. As Simon has pointed out, the Guardian no less
> tells us eating barbecued stuff is bad for us. And it stinks, disadvantages
> people who are just sitting there with a little silent and odour free sandwich
> because they can¹t afford the much larger outlay on a barbecue and all its
> accoutrements and interferes with someone who just for instance wants to read
> a book on a bench. They are forced to smell your cooking food.
> 
> The dog analogy isn¹t quite right since whilst your dog is fouling the
> pavement, it doesn¹t smell or choke my nostrils with its effluent.
> 
> Can we not add fun by supplying more play equipment , nice classy deckchairs
> for people who haven¹t got a blanket with them, tennis raquets if you want to
> have knock of tennis and even a pitch and putt , that would be much more fun ­
> and nnot interfere with people ­ than wolfing down fattening ( and life
> threatening apparently) cooked meat.
> 
> But aren¹t we getting away from the point. We Have decided as a city NOT to
> have fires, are we going to rescind that byelaw just as we become aware of the
> really appalling damage fires do.
> 
> 
> How to do it as Peter says is another matter. Can I suggest the community
> police are TOLD to look at it, I have never seen them speaking to anyone about
> it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 21/4/10 12:38, "ian manning" <manning.ian at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> All very anti-fun :(
>>  
>> But I have to agree on putting it in the same category, sort of:  if my dog
>> (I dont' actually have one, but if I did) fouled the pavement, and then I
>> picked it upa nd removed it, that would be ok.  The same should apply to
>> bbqs.
>>  
>> Ian
>> 
>> On 21 April 2010 12:06, jean perraton <jean at perraton.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Peter writes 'I do not think it will be
>>> a great  sacrifice for  anyone if the greens become smoke free and litter
>>> free.'
>>> 
>>> Yes.  We should be seeking to encourage those activities which cause little
>>> nuisance for other park users and little harm to the environment - local and
>>> global. You could put having  BBQs - with their smell and smoke as well as
>>> concerns about the source of their fuel and throw-away packaging - in the
>>> same category as dropping litter or allowing your dog to foul the footpaths.
>>> 
>>> That would be my starting point - but obviously how best to control is
>>> another matter.
>>> 
>>> Jean
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "peter constable"
>>> <p.constable at ntlworld.com>
>>> To: "SOS Cambridge discussion list" <discuss at soscambridge.org.uk>
>>> Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 7:00 PM
>>> 
>>> Subject: Re: [Discuss] Greens in central Cambridge Litter and Barbecues
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Alan
>>>> 
>>>> This is an old subject and for years we have been trying to encourage
>>>> the Council to do something.
>>>> There has been great resistance to notices but now there seems to be a
>>>> change of heart. It is difficult to consider taking action  when
>>>> you have done nothing to bring the local ordinances to peoples
>>>> attention, There are ordinances against litter and fires.
>>>> I must say that in the past I have leaned towards a barbecue area. In
>>>> the States this is normal in State Parks but I have never seen one
>>>> in a central city park. I have now come to the conclusion that a
>>>> barbecue area on Parkers Piece, Midsummer Common, Christ's Pieces,
>>>> Jesus Green etc would be inappropriate. There is almost nowhere one
>>>> could be placed without it being obtrusive and polluting.
>>>> 
>>>> I very much appreciate your comments about people without gardens or
>>>> with very small gardens (I am one) but of course there are many
>>>> thousands
>>>> of these dwellings in Cambridge and many thousands of students to whom
>>>> this would apply. There are also many thousands of residents and
>>>> visitors
>>>> who regularly visit our green spaces and who would prefer that smoke
>>>> did not get in their eyes.
>>>> 
>>>> In the past it was not thought necessary to cook outdoors to enjoy a
>>>> picnic. The habit has grown only in recent years and has been
>>>> encouraged by
>>>> the supermarkets whose colorful bags are so liberally distributed
>>>> around our greens. With the greatest respect I do not think it will be
>>>> a great
>>>> sacrifice for  anyone if the greens become smoke free and litter free.
>>>> 
>>>> Yrs
>>>> Peter
>>>> Chair JGA
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 19 Apr 2010, at 15:41, Allan Brigham wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks John. But I suspect many of those having barbeques on parks
>>>>> live in
>>>>> bedsits or flats, with at the most balconies if they are lucky.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Some of the money from building new flats and especially small
>>>>> bedsit type
>>>>> developments goes into improving local parks for these residents just
>>>>> because these new developments have no open space. There have been
>>>>> barbeques
>>>>> on Romsey Rec over the last couple of years, and it makes a horrible
>>>>> mess.
>>>>> But I'm fairly sure that many of these are people who have no where
>>>>> else to
>>>>> go outside. Which doesn't mean that burning the turf, leaving litter
>>>>> or late
>>>>> night noise is acceptable. But if policy is to encourage everyone to
>>>>> live in
>>>>> towns then there does need to be space for activities like barbeques.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Perhaps the issue is that of conflicting usages of open spaces, and
>>>>> how to
>>>>> manage/reconcile these ?
>>>>> 
>>>>> And maybe developers should be encouraged to create barbeque
>>>>> provision in
>>>>> their developments.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Allan
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: discuss-bounces at soscambridge.org.uk
>>>>> [mailto:discuss-bounces at soscambridge.org.uk] On Behalf Of John Lawton
>>>>> Sent: 19 April 2010 14:07
>>>>> To: SOS Cambridge discussion list
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Discuss] Greens in central Cambridge Litter and
>>>>> Barbecues
>>>>> 
>>>>> At 13:36 19/04/2010, you wrote:
>>>>>> Does SOS have a policy on barbeques ? Are the objections to
>>>>>> barbeques objections to burnt turf, or also to large gatherings,
>>>>>> especially at night in summer ?
>>>>> 
>>>>> I would say that we would oppose on the grounds that there is damage,
>>>>> but also usually a huge amount of litter.  Those who enjoy the fires
>>>>> seem to feel free to make a huge mess and show no responsibility to
>>>>> clear up afterwards.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> In America many open spaces come with barbeque provision. Do we need
>>>>>> the same here ?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Perhaps in the right setting, but I think not on grazing land, and
>>>>> not if they harm the nature of the green space.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Maybe we need to think about parks differently as more and more
>>>>>> people are encouraged to live in high density developments with
>>>>>> little private open space, so no room for barbeques at home. If the
>>>>>> numbers  using parks increase then noise at all times of day from
>>>>>> parks becomes a bigger issue, so maybe existing parks need
>>>>>> redesigning to keep crowds away from houses ?  Maybe we need more
>>>>>> open spaces ?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Agreed about more green space provision,  but surely everyone has
>>>>> room for a BBQ, if not a bonfire?
>>>>> 
>>>>> John
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
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>>>>> 
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