[Discuss] points
Anne Garvey
annemgarvey at ntlworld.com
Wed Apr 21 18:06:25 BST 2010
As an illustration; I saw a large Chinese group on Saturday barbecueing by
the river on JG. They had three barbies on the go. Just cycled by to check.
Yep, three huge burns in the lovely turf. They looked pretty responsible .
Ag
On 21/4/10 14:13, "Peter Constable" <p.constable at ntlworld.com> wrote:
> Yes there really is disagreement. It is with your use of the word
> "responsible" . Can't think of any way this could be fairly interpreted.
> Peter
> On 21 Apr 2010, at 14:04, ian manning wrote:
>
>> Ok, well I don't think there is really disagreement is there?
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm not saying we shouldn't discourage irresponsible bbqs, I'm saying that we
>> shouldn't ban all bbqs full stop. yes it will need continuous policing, but
>> i would rather that than stopping responsible people from having fun.
>>
>>
>>
>> VIE is the estate next to the riverside bridge (
>> http://vieresidents.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=56
>> <http://vieresidents.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=56> ).
>>
>>
>> On 21 April 2010 13:44, Anne Garvey <annemgarvey at ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Personal optimism is great. But to expect people to behave reasonably has
>>> been shown to be sadly misconceived. Some will. But those scorch marks all
>>> over the Green show you that many won¹t and again sadly they are the ones
>>> that leave the big brown marks and spoil it for everyone else.
>>>
>>> There are limits to democracy. It¹s surely about the greatest good for the
>>> greatest number. People should not be able to express freedoms by damaging
>>> the lovely scene for others surely?
>>>
>>> On balance you cannot check every single barbecue . I have tried telling
>>> people they¹re burning the grass but by the time they are it¹s too late and
>>> they don¹t care anyway and just want you to go away. I would rather \ the
>>> State¹ told people not to do this rather than people like me opening
>>> themselves up to ridicule and abuse by trying to police the vandalism right
>>> in front of our eyes. Isn¹t this what we have a civil society for?
>>>
>>> Btw what is VIE?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 21/4/10 11:33, "ian manning" <manning.ian at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> This all sounds rather conservative with a small c, and very negative. It
>>>> is a shame I didn't get a single reply to my request for help, yet this
>>>> thread with people generally moaning and being negative gets so many
>>>> replies.
>>>>
>>>> It is perfectly possible to have a bbq without damaging the environment or
>>>> disturbing other people - and no one should have any right to stop
>>>> reasonable people being reasonably. Democracy is about each individuals
>>>> right to express themselves, not the state telling them what to do.
>>>>
>>>> Of course I agree that people not behaving reasonable should feel the force
>>>> of the law/enforcement.
>>>>
>>>> And, on your specific point Anne, yes I am an optimistic person, I dont'
>>>> see a need to apologise for that! :)
>>>>
>>>> Ian
>>>>
>>>> Ian Manning
>>>> Chair, VIE Residents' Association
>>>> http://www.vieresidents.org.uk <http://www.vieresidents.org.uk/>
>>>> <http://www.vieresidents.org.uk/>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 21 April 2010 11:18, Anne Garvey <annemgarvey at ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Good point on the barbecue spelling, shall adopt immediately.
>>>>>
>>>>> Booking a party on a barbecue site? A really good idea, but that doesn¹t
>>>>> detract from the very real Libertarian problem. We are ruled by Liberal
>>>>> Democrats and their emphasis is more liberal than demotic. It is hard to
>>>>> ban things for them. Other countries, sites, parks don¹t share ( thank
>>>>> God) this aversion to telling people what to do but our Council and its
>>>>> adherents and followers still hope that people will just Œdo the right
>>>>> thing¹ and reminded that they shouldn¹t permanently burn the grass for the
>>>>> whole season will desist from so doing.
>>>>>
>>>>> People in the past would have fount this approach risibly optimistic. And
>>>>> so do many citizens today. There is nothing wrong I contend with
>>>>> introducing signs to remind Green Users ( yes Simon I have just got the
>>>>> confusion in a General Election) that there exists a ban on fires as I
>>>>> prefer to call them, as barbecues are just as destructive and you can¹t
>>>>> have any smoke without either.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 20/4/10 20:08, "Simon Norton" <S.Norton at dpmms.cam.ac.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> > Sorry if it makes me seem pedantic, but "barbecue" is not spelt with a
>>>>>> Q. If
>>>>>> > it
>>>>>> > was it would be pronounced quite differently ! I regard the
>>>>>> abbreviation BBQ,
>>>>>> > which does suggest the correct pronunciation, as acceptable.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Also, with the forthcoming general election, I initially misinterpreted
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> > start of the first message on this thread "the Greens are being badly
>>>>>> > damaged..." (with a capital G).
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Now for a couple of more substantive issues. First, in yesterday's
>>>>>> Guardian
>>>>>> > there is an article suggesting that eating barbecued food can cause
>>>>>> cancer.
>>>>>> > Search for "barbecue cancer" on http://www.guardian.co.uk
>>>>>> <http://www.guardian.co.uk/> <http://www.guardian.co.uk/>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Secondly, I would have thought that most people would want barbecuing
>>>>>> > facilities
>>>>>> > for parties rather than family meals. Could one therefore introduce a
>>>>>> booking
>>>>>> > system whereby people contacted the Council in advance, saying where
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> > wanted
>>>>>> > to hold the barbecue and roughly how many people they expected, and the
>>>>>> > Council
>>>>>> > would then tell them whether there was anywhere suitable that fit their
>>>>>> > requirements ? This would have the advantage of eliminating the need
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> > special
>>>>>> > notices. Bye laws would read something like "no cooking unless
>>>>>> authorised" --
>>>>>> > which I think is appropriate anyway because of the number of special
>>>>>> events on
>>>>>> > Midsummer Common (and other greens) where freshly cooked food is sold
>>>>>> (more
>>>>>> > pedantry !). I would expect that the Council would impose some kind of
>>>>>> payment
>>>>>> > for the facility, which should be refunded if the weather was such that
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> > barbecue had to be cancelled. Is this a feasible way of doing things ?
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > If this was agreed then SOS should ask to be consulted as to what
>>>>>> places would
>>>>>> > be considered suitable -- that is, assuming that the answer isn't
>>>>>> "none".
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Simon Norton
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>>> > discuss mailing list
>>>>>> > discuss at soscambridge.org.uk
>>>>>> > http://soscambridge.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/discuss_soscambridge.org.uk
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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