[Discuss] Greens in central Cambridge Litter and Barbecues

Anne Garvey annemgarvey at ntlworld.com
Wed Apr 21 13:34:08 BST 2010 

I don¹t think it is anti-fun. As Simon has pointed out, the Guardian no less
tells us eating barbecued stuff is bad for us. And it stinks, disadvantages
people who are just sitting there with a little silent and odour free
sandwich because they can¹t afford the much larger outlay on a barbecue and
all its accoutrements and interferes with someone who just for instance
wants to read a book on a bench. They are forced to smell your cooking food.

The dog analogy isn¹t quite right since whilst your dog is fouling the
pavement, it doesn¹t smell or choke my nostrils with its effluent.

Can we not add fun by supplying more play equipment , nice classy deckchairs
for people who haven¹t got a blanket with them, tennis raquets if you want
to have knock of tennis and even a pitch and putt , that would be much more
fun ­ and nnot interfere with people ­ than wolfing down fattening ( and
life threatening apparently) cooked meat.

But aren¹t we getting away from the point. We Have decided as a city NOT to
have fires, are we going to rescind that byelaw just as we become aware of
the really appalling damage fires do.


How to do it as Peter says is another matter. Can I suggest the community
police are TOLD to look at it, I have never seen them speaking to anyone
about it.




On 21/4/10 12:38, "ian manning" <manning.ian at gmail.com> wrote:

> All very anti-fun :(
>  
> But I have to agree on putting it in the same category, sort of:  if my dog (I
> dont' actually have one, but if I did) fouled the pavement, and then I picked
> it upa nd removed it, that would be ok.  The same should apply to bbqs.
>  
> Ian
> 
> On 21 April 2010 12:06, jean perraton <jean at perraton.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>> Peter writes 'I do not think it will be
>> a great  sacrifice for  anyone if the greens become smoke free and litter
>> free.'
>> 
>> Yes.  We should be seeking to encourage those activities which cause little
>> nuisance for other park users and little harm to the environment - local and
>> global. You could put having  BBQs - with their smell and smoke as well as
>> concerns about the source of their fuel and throw-away packaging - in the
>> same category as dropping litter or allowing your dog to foul the footpaths.
>> 
>> That would be my starting point - but obviously how best to control is
>> another matter.
>> 
>> Jean
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "peter constable"
>> <p.constable at ntlworld.com>
>> To: "SOS Cambridge discussion list" <discuss at soscambridge.org.uk>
>> Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 7:00 PM
>> 
>> Subject: Re: [Discuss] Greens in central Cambridge Litter and Barbecues
>> 
>> 
>>> Alan
>>> 
>>> This is an old subject and for years we have been trying to encourage
>>> the Council to do something.
>>> There has been great resistance to notices but now there seems to be a
>>> change of heart. It is difficult to consider taking action  when
>>> you have done nothing to bring the local ordinances to peoples
>>> attention, There are ordinances against litter and fires.
>>> I must say that in the past I have leaned towards a barbecue area. In
>>> the States this is normal in State Parks but I have never seen one
>>> in a central city park. I have now come to the conclusion that a
>>> barbecue area on Parkers Piece, Midsummer Common, Christ's Pieces,
>>> Jesus Green etc would be inappropriate. There is almost nowhere one
>>> could be placed without it being obtrusive and polluting.
>>> 
>>> I very much appreciate your comments about people without gardens or
>>> with very small gardens (I am one) but of course there are many
>>> thousands
>>> of these dwellings in Cambridge and many thousands of students to whom
>>> this would apply. There are also many thousands of residents and
>>> visitors
>>> who regularly visit our green spaces and who would prefer that smoke
>>> did not get in their eyes.
>>> 
>>> In the past it was not thought necessary to cook outdoors to enjoy a
>>> picnic. The habit has grown only in recent years and has been
>>> encouraged by
>>> the supermarkets whose colorful bags are so liberally distributed
>>> around our greens. With the greatest respect I do not think it will be
>>> a great
>>> sacrifice for  anyone if the greens become smoke free and litter free.
>>> 
>>> Yrs
>>> Peter
>>> Chair JGA
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 19 Apr 2010, at 15:41, Allan Brigham wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Thanks John. But I suspect many of those having barbeques on parks
>>>> live in
>>>> bedsits or flats, with at the most balconies if they are lucky.
>>>> 
>>>> Some of the money from building new flats and especially small
>>>> bedsit type
>>>> developments goes into improving local parks for these residents just
>>>> because these new developments have no open space. There have been
>>>> barbeques
>>>> on Romsey Rec over the last couple of years, and it makes a horrible
>>>> mess.
>>>> But I'm fairly sure that many of these are people who have no where
>>>> else to
>>>> go outside. Which doesn't mean that burning the turf, leaving litter
>>>> or late
>>>> night noise is acceptable. But if policy is to encourage everyone to
>>>> live in
>>>> towns then there does need to be space for activities like barbeques.
>>>> 
>>>> Perhaps the issue is that of conflicting usages of open spaces, and
>>>> how to
>>>> manage/reconcile these ?
>>>> 
>>>> And maybe developers should be encouraged to create barbeque
>>>> provision in
>>>> their developments.
>>>> 
>>>> Allan
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: discuss-bounces at soscambridge.org.uk
>>>> [mailto:discuss-bounces at soscambridge.org.uk] On Behalf Of John Lawton
>>>> Sent: 19 April 2010 14:07
>>>> To: SOS Cambridge discussion list
>>>> Subject: Re: [Discuss] Greens in central Cambridge Litter and
>>>> Barbecues
>>>> 
>>>> At 13:36 19/04/2010, you wrote:
>>>>> Does SOS have a policy on barbeques ? Are the objections to
>>>>> barbeques objections to burnt turf, or also to large gatherings,
>>>>> especially at night in summer ?
>>>> 
>>>> I would say that we would oppose on the grounds that there is damage,
>>>> but also usually a huge amount of litter.  Those who enjoy the fires
>>>> seem to feel free to make a huge mess and show no responsibility to
>>>> clear up afterwards.
>>>> 
>>>>> In America many open spaces come with barbeque provision. Do we need
>>>>> the same here ?
>>>> 
>>>> Perhaps in the right setting, but I think not on grazing land, and
>>>> not if they harm the nature of the green space.
>>>> 
>>>>> Maybe we need to think about parks differently as more and more
>>>>> people are encouraged to live in high density developments with
>>>>> little private open space, so no room for barbeques at home. If the
>>>>> numbers  using parks increase then noise at all times of day from
>>>>> parks becomes a bigger issue, so maybe existing parks need
>>>>> redesigning to keep crowds away from houses ?  Maybe we need more
>>>>> open spaces ?
>>>> 
>>>> Agreed about more green space provision,  but surely everyone has
>>>> room for a BBQ, if not a bonfire?
>>>> 
>>>> John
>>>> 
>>>> 
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