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<TITLE>Re: [Discuss] Greens in central Cambridge Litter and Barbecues</TITLE>
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<FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12.0px'>Reading this back, I didn’t mean ‘your’ in any personal sense. ‘ One’s’ always sounds rather like Princess Anne.<BR>
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On 21/4/10 13:34, "Anne Garvey" <annemgarvey@ntlworld.com> wrote:<BR>
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</SPAN></FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12.0px'>I don’t think it is anti-fun. As Simon has pointed out, the Guardian no less tells us eating barbecued stuff is bad for us. And it stinks, disadvantages people who are just sitting there with a little silent and odour free sandwich because they can’t afford the much larger outlay on a barbecue and all its accoutrements and interferes with someone who just for instance wants to read a book on a bench. They are forced to smell your cooking food. <BR>
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The dog analogy isn’t quite right since whilst your dog is fouling the pavement, it doesn’t smell or choke my nostrils with its effluent.<BR>
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Can we not add fun by supplying more play equipment , nice classy deckchairs for people who haven’t got a blanket with them, tennis raquets if you want to have knock of tennis and even a pitch and putt , that would be much more fun – and nnot interfere with people – than wolfing down fattening ( and life threatening apparently) cooked meat.<BR>
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But aren’t we getting away from the point. We Have decided as a city NOT to have fires, are we going to rescind that byelaw just as we become aware of the really appalling damage fires do.<BR>
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How to do it as Peter says is another matter. Can I suggest the community police are TOLD to look at it, I have never seen them speaking to anyone about it.<BR>
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On 21/4/10 12:38, "ian manning" <manning.ian@gmail.com> wrote:<BR>
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</SPAN></FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12.0px'>All very anti-fun :(<BR>
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But I have to agree on putting it in the same category, sort of: if my dog (I dont' actually have one, but if I did) fouled the pavement, and then I picked it upa nd removed it, that would be ok. The same should apply to bbqs.<BR>
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Ian<BR>
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On 21 April 2010 12:06, jean perraton <jean@perraton.myzen.co.uk> wrote:<BR>
</SPAN></FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12.0px'>Peter writes 'I do not think it will be<BR>
a great sacrifice for anyone if the greens become smoke free and litter free.'<BR>
<BR>
Yes. We should be seeking to encourage those activities which cause little nuisance for other park users and little harm to the environment - local and global. You could put having BBQs - with their smell and smoke as well as concerns about the source of their fuel and throw-away packaging - in the same category as dropping litter or allowing your dog to foul the footpaths.<BR>
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That would be my starting point - but obviously how best to control is another matter.<BR>
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Jean<BR>
----- Original Message ----- From: "peter constable" <p.constable@ntlworld.com><BR>
To: "SOS Cambridge discussion list" <discuss@soscambridge.org.uk><BR>
Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 7:00 PM <BR>
<BR>
Subject: Re: [Discuss] Greens in central Cambridge Litter and Barbecues<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</SPAN></FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12.0px'>Alan<BR>
<BR>
This is an old subject and for years we have been trying to encourage<BR>
the Council to do something.<BR>
There has been great resistance to notices but now there seems to be a<BR>
change of heart. It is difficult to consider taking action when<BR>
you have done nothing to bring the local ordinances to peoples<BR>
attention, There are ordinances against litter and fires.<BR>
I must say that in the past I have leaned towards a barbecue area. In<BR>
the States this is normal in State Parks but I have never seen one<BR>
in a central city park. I have now come to the conclusion that a<BR>
barbecue area on Parkers Piece, Midsummer Common, Christ's Pieces,<BR>
Jesus Green etc would be inappropriate. There is almost nowhere one<BR>
could be placed without it being obtrusive and polluting.<BR>
<BR>
I very much appreciate your comments about people without gardens or<BR>
with very small gardens (I am one) but of course there are many<BR>
thousands<BR>
of these dwellings in Cambridge and many thousands of students to whom<BR>
this would apply. There are also many thousands of residents and<BR>
visitors<BR>
who regularly visit our green spaces and who would prefer that smoke<BR>
did not get in their eyes.<BR>
<BR>
In the past it was not thought necessary to cook outdoors to enjoy a<BR>
picnic. The habit has grown only in recent years and has been<BR>
encouraged by<BR>
the supermarkets whose colorful bags are so liberally distributed<BR>
around our greens. With the greatest respect I do not think it will be<BR>
a great<BR>
sacrifice for anyone if the greens become smoke free and litter free.<BR>
<BR>
Yrs<BR>
Peter<BR>
Chair JGA<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
On 19 Apr 2010, at 15:41, Allan Brigham wrote:<BR>
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</SPAN></FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12.0px'>Thanks John. But I suspect many of those having barbeques on parks<BR>
live in<BR>
bedsits or flats, with at the most balconies if they are lucky.<BR>
<BR>
Some of the money from building new flats and especially small<BR>
bedsit type<BR>
developments goes into improving local parks for these residents just<BR>
because these new developments have no open space. There have been<BR>
barbeques<BR>
on Romsey Rec over the last couple of years, and it makes a horrible<BR>
mess.<BR>
But I'm fairly sure that many of these are people who have no where<BR>
else to<BR>
go outside. Which doesn't mean that burning the turf, leaving litter<BR>
or late<BR>
night noise is acceptable. But if policy is to encourage everyone to<BR>
live in<BR>
towns then there does need to be space for activities like barbeques.<BR>
<BR>
Perhaps the issue is that of conflicting usages of open spaces, and<BR>
how to<BR>
manage/reconcile these ?<BR>
<BR>
And maybe developers should be encouraged to create barbeque<BR>
provision in<BR>
their developments.<BR>
<BR>
Allan<BR>
<BR>
-----Original Message-----<BR>
From: discuss-bounces@soscambridge.org.uk<BR>
[<a href="mailto:discuss-bounces@soscambridge.org.uk]">mailto:discuss-bounces@soscambridge.org.uk]</a> On Behalf Of John Lawton<BR>
Sent: 19 April 2010 14:07<BR>
To: SOS Cambridge discussion list<BR>
Subject: Re: [Discuss] Greens in central Cambridge Litter and<BR>
Barbecues<BR>
<BR>
At 13:36 19/04/2010, you wrote:<BR>
</SPAN></FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12.0px'>Does SOS have a policy on barbeques ? Are the objections to<BR>
barbeques objections to burnt turf, or also to large gatherings,<BR>
especially at night in summer ?<BR>
</SPAN></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12.0px'><BR>
I would say that we would oppose on the grounds that there is damage,<BR>
but also usually a huge amount of litter. Those who enjoy the fires<BR>
seem to feel free to make a huge mess and show no responsibility to<BR>
clear up afterwards.<BR>
<BR>
</SPAN></FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12.0px'>In America many open spaces come with barbeque provision. Do we need<BR>
the same here ?<BR>
</SPAN></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12.0px'><BR>
Perhaps in the right setting, but I think not on grazing land, and<BR>
not if they harm the nature of the green space.<BR>
<BR>
</SPAN></FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12.0px'>Maybe we need to think about parks differently as more and more<BR>
people are encouraged to live in high density developments with<BR>
little private open space, so no room for barbeques at home. If the<BR>
numbers using parks increase then noise at all times of day from<BR>
parks becomes a bigger issue, so maybe existing parks need<BR>
redesigning to keep crowds away from houses ? Maybe we need more<BR>
open spaces ?<BR>
</SPAN></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12.0px'><BR>
Agreed about more green space provision, but surely everyone has<BR>
room for a BBQ, if not a bonfire?<BR>
<BR>
John<BR>
<BR>
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