<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>Re: [Discuss] points</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12.0px'>As an illustration; I saw a large Chinese group on Saturday barbecueing by the river on JG. They had three barbies on the go. Just cycled by to check. Yep, three huge burns in the lovely turf. They looked pretty responsible . Ag<BR>
On 21/4/10 14:13, "Peter Constable" <p.constable@ntlworld.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
</SPAN></FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12.0px'>Yes there really is disagreement. It is with your use of the word "responsible" . Can't think of any way this could be fairly interpreted.<BR>
Peter<BR>
On 21 Apr 2010, at 14:04, ian manning wrote:<BR>
<BR>
</SPAN></FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12.0px'>Ok, well I don't think there is really disagreement is there?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I'm not saying we shouldn't discourage irresponsible bbqs, I'm saying that we shouldn't ban all bbqs full stop. yes it will need continuous policing, but i would rather that than stopping responsible people from having fun.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
VIE is the estate next to the riverside bridge ( <a href="http://vieresidents.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=56">http://vieresidents.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=56</a> <a href="http://vieresidents.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=56"><http://vieresidents.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=56></a> ).<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
On 21 April 2010 13:44, Anne Garvey <annemgarvey@ntlworld.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
</SPAN></FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12.0px'> <BR>
Personal optimism is great. But to expect people to behave reasonably has been shown to be sadly misconceived. Some will. But those scorch marks all over the Green show you that many won’t and again sadly they are the ones that leave the big brown marks and spoil it for everyone else. <BR>
<BR>
There are limits to democracy. It’s surely about the greatest good for the greatest number. People should not be able to express freedoms by damaging the lovely scene for others surely?<BR>
<BR>
On balance you cannot check every single barbecue . I have tried telling people they’re burning the grass but by the time they are it’s too late and they don’t care anyway and just want you to go away. I would rather \ the State’ told people not to do this rather than people like me opening themselves up to ridicule and abuse by trying to police the vandalism right in front of our eyes. Isn’t this what we have a civil society for? <BR>
<BR>
Btw what is VIE? <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
On 21/4/10 11:33, "ian manning" <manning.ian@gmail.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</SPAN></FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12.0px'> <BR>
This all sounds rather conservative with a small c, and very negative. It is a shame I didn't get a single reply to my request for help, yet this thread with people generally moaning and being negative gets so many replies.<BR>
<BR>
It is perfectly possible to have a bbq without damaging the environment or disturbing other people - and no one should have any right to stop reasonable people being reasonably. Democracy is about each individuals right to express themselves, not the state telling them what to do.<BR>
<BR>
Of course I agree that people not behaving reasonable should feel the force of the law/enforcement.<BR>
<BR>
And, on your specific point Anne, yes I am an optimistic person, I dont' see a need to apologise for that! :)<BR>
<BR>
Ian<BR>
<BR>
Ian Manning<BR>
Chair, VIE Residents' Association<BR>
<a href="http://www.vieresidents.org.uk">http://www.vieresidents.org.uk</a> <a href="http://www.vieresidents.org.uk/"><http://www.vieresidents.org.uk/></a> <a href="http://www.vieresidents.org.uk/"><http://www.vieresidents.org.uk/></a> <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
On 21 April 2010 11:18, Anne Garvey <annemgarvey@ntlworld.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
</SPAN></FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12.0px'> <BR>
Good point on the barbecue spelling, shall adopt immediately.<BR>
<BR>
Booking a party on a barbecue site? A really good idea, but that doesn’t detract from the very real Libertarian problem. We are ruled by Liberal Democrats and their emphasis is more liberal than demotic. It is hard to ban things for them. Other countries, sites, parks don’t share ( thank God) this aversion to telling people what to do but our Council and its adherents and followers still hope that people will just ‘do the right thing’ and reminded that they shouldn’t permanently burn the grass for the whole season will desist from so doing.<BR>
<BR>
People in the past would have fount this approach risibly optimistic. And so do many citizens today. There is nothing wrong I contend with introducing signs to remind Green Users ( yes Simon I have just got the confusion in a General Election) that there exists a ban on fires as I prefer to call them, as barbecues are just as destructive and you can’t have any smoke without either. <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
On 20/4/10 20:08, "Simon Norton" <S.Norton@dpmms.cam.ac.uk> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
<FONT COLOR="#0000FF"> <BR>
> Sorry if it makes me seem pedantic, but "barbecue" is not spelt with a Q. If <BR>
> it<BR>
> was it would be pronounced quite differently ! I regard the abbreviation BBQ,<BR>
> which does suggest the correct pronunciation, as acceptable.<BR>
> <BR>
> Also, with the forthcoming general election, I initially misinterpreted the<BR>
> start of the first message on this thread "the Greens are being badly<BR>
> damaged..." (with a capital G).<BR>
> <BR>
> Now for a couple of more substantive issues. First, in yesterday's Guardian<BR>
> there is an article suggesting that eating barbecued food can cause cancer.<BR>
> Search for "barbecue cancer" on <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk">http://www.guardian.co.uk</a> <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/"><http://www.guardian.co.uk/></a> <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/"><http://www.guardian.co.uk/></a> <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> Secondly, I would have thought that most people would want barbecuing <BR>
> facilities<BR>
> for parties rather than family meals. Could one therefore introduce a booking<BR>
> system whereby people contacted the Council in advance, saying where they <BR>
> wanted<BR>
> to hold the barbecue and roughly how many people they expected, and the <BR>
> Council<BR>
> would then tell them whether there was anywhere suitable that fit their<BR>
> requirements ? This would have the advantage of eliminating the need for <BR>
> special<BR>
> notices. Bye laws would read something like "no cooking unless authorised" --<BR>
> which I think is appropriate anyway because of the number of special events on<BR>
> Midsummer Common (and other greens) where freshly cooked food is sold (more<BR>
> pedantry !). I would expect that the Council would impose some kind of payment<BR>
> for the facility, which should be refunded if the weather was such that the<BR>
> barbecue had to be cancelled. Is this a feasible way of doing things ?<BR>
> <BR>
> If this was agreed then SOS should ask to be consulted as to what places would<BR>
> be considered suitable -- that is, assuming that the answer isn't "none".<BR>
> <BR>
> Simon Norton<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> _______________________________________________<BR>
> discuss mailing list<BR>
> discuss@soscambridge.org.uk<BR>
> <a href="http://soscambridge.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/discuss_soscambridge.org.uk">http://soscambridge.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/discuss_soscambridge.org.uk</a><BR>
<BR>
</FONT> <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
_______________________________________________<BR>
discuss mailing list<BR>
discuss@soscambridge.org.uk<BR>
<a href="http://soscambridge.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/discuss_soscambridge.org.uk">http://soscambridge.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/discuss_soscambridge.org.uk</a><BR>
<BR>
</SPAN></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12.0px'><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<HR ALIGN=CENTER SIZE="3" WIDTH="95%"> <BR>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="2"><FONT FACE="Monaco, Courier New"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10.0px'>_______________________________________________<BR>
discuss mailing list<BR>
discuss@soscambridge.org.uk<BR>
<a href="http://soscambridge.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/discuss_soscambridge.org.uk">http://soscambridge.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/discuss_soscambridge.org.uk</a><BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT SIZE="2"><FONT FACE="Monaco, Courier New"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10.0px'><BR>
<BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12.0px'><BR>
_______________________________________________<BR>
discuss mailing list<BR>
discuss@soscambridge.org.uk<BR>
<a href="http://soscambridge.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/discuss_soscambridge.org.uk">http://soscambridge.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/discuss_soscambridge.org.uk</a><BR>
<BR>
</SPAN></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12.0px'><BR>
_______________________________________________<BR>
discuss mailing list<BR>
discuss@soscambridge.org.uk<BR>
<a href="http://soscambridge.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/discuss_soscambridge.org.uk">http://soscambridge.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/discuss_soscambridge.org.uk</a><BR>
</SPAN></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:12.0px'><BR>
<BR>
<HR ALIGN=CENTER SIZE="3" WIDTH="95%"></SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE="2"><FONT FACE="Monaco, Courier New"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10.0px'>_______________________________________________<BR>
discuss mailing list<BR>
discuss@soscambridge.org.uk<BR>
<a href="http://soscambridge.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/discuss_soscambridge.org.uk">http://soscambridge.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/discuss_soscambridge.org.uk</a><BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT SIZE="2"><FONT FACE="Monaco, Courier New"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:10.0px'><BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT>
</BODY>
</HTML>